Pass me the brain bleach!

[trixtah]

Despite the fact I am quite enjoying living in Australia (while Canberra has its drawbacks, they're minor in the greater scheme of things), I DO NOT WANT TO BE AN AUSTRALIAN. *ahem*  Seriously, I do not. While the place is fairly similar to NZ culturally, there are still some significant differences (treatment of the indigenous population being a glaring example). Also, while NZ was in the 1950s politically up until the late 80s, and a lot of kiwis emigrated here to participate in a much more liberal lifestyle, that difference has done a 180 degree swap - Australia doesn't seem to be politically that far away from the US at present, while NZ is a bit like Scandanavia-in-the-South-Pacific. New Zealand is my home and my refuge, still.

Imagine my horror on learning that some Aussie MPs are suggesting that NZ unite politically with Australia. Ack! I don't have problems with the notion of a shared currency, if it's handled well. The current CER trade agreement works well (and is light-years better than any "free trade" agreement with the US, which the NZ government raises as a possibilty from time to time. God knows why). But as Idiot/Savant on No Right Turn points out:

... on the minus side there's the fact that our "shared values" aren't that shared. Quite apart from the obvious point of difference on race relations, there's also our divergant foreign policies and differing stances on Iraq, climate change, refugees, human rights, and the Pacific. Political union with Australia would mean losing our voice on the international stage, and would see our policy stance dictated by Texas-over-the-Tasman. And that's something I don't want a bar of.

Also, given the number of kiwi jokes that abound here (more than the other way round, I've noticed), why on earth would they want to have us? It's amusing there's still provision in the legislation that forms the Australian Commonwealth for the addition of NZ as another state. It's kind of sweet, in a way (ignoring the imperialistic aspect).

Comments

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

New Zealand's law allows for it to become a state in a larger commonwealth, too.

If Oz wasn't currently in a Texas phase, how would you feel?

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

I'd feel much better about Oz if it weren't so much in a Texas phase, but I do think societal attitudes here in the main are more backwards. Also, I find the Australian version of "multiculturalism" not very multicultural.

That's not to say we're not backwards in plenty of social and geographic pockets in NZ and don't have our share of stupid racists... but it doesn't seem so pervasive as here. Also, we have had a longer history of disengagement from the US... if that changed, I wouldn't feel nearly so happy about home.

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.

You know, there's a fairly large Maori community here...indeed part of it's local to me.

Canberra's always a poor example, too.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, I know there are quite a number of Maori here. But the difference in emphasis and national consciousness when your indigenous race is hovering around 1% of the population vs 15% of the population is quite marked. It's impossible for Maori to be marginalised in NZ (despite past efforts).

But you are absolutely right about Canberra being a poor example - I've never lived somewhere so homogenised.

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

Much more than 1% of us are of Aboriginal descent.

The bad bits of Oz tend to be north of Newcastle and west of Adelaide.

Yup, Canberra's odd.

You know it's said that only Victorians ID firstly as Australians when at home (a big generalisation, but it's really noticeable actually).

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Oh, hell, yes, I know that more than 1% of Australians are of Aboriginal descent - my OGF is one - but they are not identified as such in the official stats, unfortunately.

However, I'm not trying to go rah-rah and that NZ's is obviously superior (because I don't believe that); I've just highlighted the couple of the parts that I find tricky adjusting to - and a big chunk of that is Canberra. I find a lot of Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and places like the Blue Mountains and the some coastal areas quite homelike. Our cultures have more in common than not, and we have quite a lot of shared Tasman history (despite the reluctance of historians in admitting that!). I think the relative differences in culture are similar to those between the English and the Welsh.

That's interesting what you say about just the Victorians IDing firstly as Australians - I hadn't heard that one before. Another thing I don't get here is the retention of the federal system with a relatively small population. There was certainly a rationale for it before modern communication and transport methods. Now... I can't see it, so much.

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

The states won't let go their power. It took two world wars for them to let go as much as they have.

Thank goodness, at the moment.

Also, the federal system means individual states can forge ahead socially for a while. In my lifetime it was SA, then NSW, then (amazingly) Tas.

I think people from Greater Melbourne are likely more like New Zealnders than we are Queenslanders (I see no reason ever to go there).

Certainly when I've travelled overseas, NZ folks seem more like 'my poeple' than to people from some other areas of Australia.

Quite emphatically.

But, yes, I do know there are still cultural differences.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Hah, good point about the individual states forging ahead socially their own fashion. Too true.

And yeppers, I love Melbourne, and I would happily live there - ahead of plenty of places back home, it must be said. Maybe we could encourage you Victorians to split off, and the Tassies (they have certainly redeemed themselves in the last decade or so), and the other bits 'n' bobs in SA and NSW, and we could form the trans-Tasman Southern Cross Republic. Or something like. :-)

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

With your numbers the hoons would be overwhelmed, actually.

I suspect that's why the topic arose amongst the pollies!

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

New Zealand's law allows for it to become a state in a larger commonwealth, too.

Also, sorry, forgot this bit, does it really? We didn't have a Constitution Act until the mid-80s, although I suppose the Statute of Westminster makes NZ part of the British Commonwealth. I find Australia's self-description as a commonwealth quite confusing in that regard, actually. *goes to read up about it*

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

Yes, it does really.

It's easier for NZ than us.

Much, if I recall correctly.

You'd become one of the seven states and two territories of Australasia (or some such).

It would all work more easily if we were Republics, though.

Constitution Act

[(Anonymous)]

We didn't have a Constitution Act until the mid-80s

Um, no. We had a New Zealand Constitution Act (UK) 1852 - but it was a British law, not a New Zealand one, and we didn't gain the power to hack around with it for a while.

Idiot/Savant
No Right Turn - New Zealand's liberal blog
http://norightturn.blogspot.com

[cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com]

Well I would like to have you here, but that is just being selfish.

I share your fears about Australia, I am more that happy with melbourne, where I intend to stay, that is of course unless I end up in NZ.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

*blushes*

Aw, thanks, that's really nice. And yes, there are definitely a few people here who are quite pleased to have me about. :-)

Melbourne is a funky town, and if all of Australia were similar, that would be cool. Then again, not all of NZ is like Wellington (just as well, weather-wise!), so nothing is perfect....

Anschluss!

[baglieg.livejournal.com]

Ha! I heard that headline on the telly last night and was like "What? They're reading my LJ now?"

Paranoia aside, though, it's a joke item from the funny pages, right after the bit about Bat Boy going on a blind date with the Sasquatch's cousin's hairdresser. I don't think any of the Aussies behind this plan are big names, and it looks like the entire nation of NZ is opposed to it. It would be harder to pull off than making Australia a republic, and that's not going to happen this decade either.

Re: Anschluss!

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it looked to me a bit like some committee trying to justify their existance. Still, amusing, and yes, your moves towards republicanism might be a bit more of a priority. :-)

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

Funnily enough I was just talking to a friend about that this afternoon.

He pointed out there are a lot of advantages to amalgamation from NZ's point of view (can't remember what they are now).

I pointed out that while I could see what he was getting at, I Do Not Want To Be Australian.

And I don't know very many New Zealanders who do.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Yes, I can see some advantages to a shared currency and this and that, but since we can freely work in both countries, I don't see any major other benefits. I wouldn't want the Aussie tax regime (zillions of exemptions and rules that everyone tries to score from), and I think business and political practices in NZ are a lot less corrupt. Some economies of scale stuff might be feasible, and I think NZers are somewhat underpaid even taking quality-of-life into account.

However, I think all the kiwis over 25 who'd want to be Australian are already here, living on the Gold Coast. :-)

[faxon.livejournal.com]

This "West Island" stuff keeps popping up every now and then. I remember it from when I was still at school - and that was a long, long time ago! I even remember the T-shirts. :)

I doubt it will ever happen. I can't see any NZ pollie wanting to give up having power over a country for power over a state. I can't see Helen Clark giving up being PM to become a state governer.

The big thing that I see stopping any trans-tasman union is the nuclear free stance of NZ - doesn't sit well with little Johnny.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

You're so right about no NZ politician ever being willing to vote away their power.

Foreign policy in general is a big one, isn't it? While the nuclear policy was important in itself, the underlying statement that "we will not kiss the US's butt any longer" is the one that the conservative wankers here bitterly resent.

[saluqi.livejournal.com]

I think there is a lot to be said for less of a border between the two countries. A single currency would be a good start. Basically what I'd like to see is a strong economic union similar to a small EU.

I think the biggest spanner in the works will reveal itself over the next 10 years: New Zealand has water and we don't. I was talking at lunch with a couple of colleagues about the fact that a lot of Australians and ex-pat Kiwis see New Zealand as a place they will bolt to when Australia becomes a Mad Max style wasteland. We also noted that with all those clever Sav Blanc drinking middle class people thinking the same way, New Zealand might end up with a major environmental refugee problem coming at it from both sides. Either that or we annex it (I'm only half joking).

As to Australia, you won't get any argument from me that socially it's not in very good shape after 10 years of Howard. However, there is more to a country than its Government and its suburban belts, and I have some hope for the future.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Yes, the EU is a model I was thinking of as well. But with CER and the DTAs and so on, we do have good chunks of it. More would be dandy.

It's funny what you say about climate. I was thinking the other day that NZ should just stop pissing around with trying to export to Europe, and just be Australia's farm. We export 8 times the amount of protein than we consume, and that would probably just about cover Australia's needs (given 5x the population). So too with (renewable) softwood exports. Can't quite manage the sugar cane or wheat, alas (although NZ produces some wheat). Perhaps PNG should be part of the SPU?

As for major environmental refugee problems, you're not kidding. While the NZ government is gearing up for 50,000 Tuvalans (not to mention the 100,000s other Pacific Island people who live in low-lying atolls), a few million Australians might strain the borders a bit. Still, they can squeeze 60 million into the UK with about the same land area as NZ - anything's possible! (eek) Now, there is somewhere I wouldn't fancy living again for the long term.

Too right about being more to a country than its government. Actually, I have yet to find a Canberran who has voted for this lot. One problem about being a furriner is not having a feel for the underlying political currents and slow shifts - hope for the future is a good thing.

[filkferengi]

obLMB: "I didn't vote for him." ;)

"I didn't vote for him"

[jekni.livejournal.com]

Yup, and you won't either - no matter how many you ask. (Even the ones who actually did are too p*issed off with what the Liberal party has done to this place in the last 10 years).

Traditionally the ACT is die-hard Labor territory. One of the reasons Little Johnny doesn't want to live here (I could tell you the other but it's only salacious gossip - the best kind, of course).

We all hope for the future. Although it doesn't matter who you vote for - a politician still gets elected.