More seriously on language

[trixtah]

In the latest updates to the OED, the editors have made a fairly definite stance on the derivation of pom (meaning English person):

pomegranate, n. and adj.
5. Austral. colloq. An immigrant to Australia from Britain. Now superseded by

POM n.², POMMY n.

1912 Bulletin (Sydney) 14 Nov. 16/4 The other day a Pummy Grant (assisted immigrant) was handed a bridle and told to catch a horse. 1912 Truth (Sydney) 22 Dec. 1/3 Now they call 'em ‘Pomegranates’ and the Jimmygrants don't like it. 1924 D. H. LAWRENCE & M. SKINNER Boy in Bush 120 Here you, young Pommy Grant. 1963 X. HERBERT Disturbing Elem. 91 He still wore the heavy clumsy British type of clothing of the day. When we kids saw people on the street dressed like that we would yell at them: ‘Jimmygrants, Pommygranates, Pommies!’

So, none of that Prisoner of Her Majesty (which doesn't even work) or Permit of Migration (which didn't exist) rubbish.

I'm just surprised that the OED still considers it to be derog. Mildly so, sometimes, but no more than saying "Brits" with a particular emphasis. I don't think people use it that rudely here in Oz these days either (no more so than kiwis do). Yay proper etymology!

Comments

[buddleia.livejournal.com]

I don't think people use it that rudely here in Oz these days either No? Must have changed since '96, then! Mind you, I never got over my happy hysterics from my first day at the bottle shop in King's Cross - picture it: Local pisshead wanders in, wobbles up to the counter, focuses on me and says, "Strewth! S'a bloody Sheila!" and then wobbles out again. Made. My. Day.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

*chortle!* That's classic, maybe they paid him to put in appearances when innocent young British tourists turned up.

As for it being used in a derogatory fashion, sure, I've heard that plenty of times, usually prefixed with "whining" or "bloody" (I'm soooo glad there wasn't a term for "whining kiwi" in London; there probably has been one invented due to my tenure there, tho', heh.).

But I honestly have heard it in the "there's our wee pommy mate" sense more frequently. I've always thought of it as being more jocular than not, although maybe the "not" part has diminished comparatively in more recent times too. Or maybe us kiwis are just that bit nicer.

(HAHAHAH!)

[saluqi.livejournal.com]

Hee!

As to whether Pom is derogatory, I think Aussies are pretty good at doing the friendly cruelty thing. Dag is often affectionate, but it's also not complimentary.

[buddleia.livejournal.com]

Agreed. It's up there with all the times I've told someone to fuck off while we both grin our heads off.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

I'd just like to say I had a massive crush on Felicity Kendal in my youth, and that icon is making me remember Bad Things. :-)

[buddleia.livejournal.com]

Hee, ciderpress, who is MY FRIEND I SAW HER FIRST, made it for me. She's trying to get me to write a story about the Stargate Atlantis crew in the Good Life, or To The Manor Born. And, hell yes, I had a crush on Felicity. Didn't everyone?

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

No, all the chickies who go for butches or utili-dykes (oops, sorry, your standard nothing-in-particular dyke) don't like Felicity at all. Unless they're pansexual in that they fancy all sorts. :-)

I must check out SGA sometime, since everyone raves about it, but I just keep thinking it'd be too geeky for my taste. Still, I won't know till I see it.

Getting back to Felicity, I nearly died when I saw the Beeb production with her in Twelfth Night. I suppose it's too much to hope someone might have torrented that one, *sigh*

[stoutfellow.livejournal.com]

World Wide Words (which is my go-to site for questions of etymology) has a good entry (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pom1.htm) on the word.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Ooh, that is good. I've wandered through that site in the past, but I haven't seen that entry before. I think the OED has only recently got its mitts on those two citations, which a decade earlier than the Laurence example.

Thanks for the link!