Martian antennae time

[trixtah]

Just because you're poly, it does not make you a speshul snowflake. All relationships require negotiation, all relationships should have a reasonably clear set of expectations. All the people you deal with deserve respect and consideration.

Like any other relationship, there will be conflicts because of misunderstandings (or acting out). Issues like one person getting upset when "check in with me when you shag someone new" was done after the event rather than before are not that different to one person getting upset because "a few drinks after work" should not imply rolling in at 3am completely drunk.

Ok, poly gives you a few new and creative ways to misunderstand and cock up - or be malicious and cause drama - but strictly mono couples still manage to have very similar issues.

If anyone's been following the recent discussion on the Polyamory comm, am I barking up the wrong tree? What is it about "I prefer open/multiple relationships" that newbies need educating about (according to some)? (Ok, if you're into orgies, there's some etiquette there.) Is it because some people are so immersed in their alt.sex environment that they forget that these kinds of issues are well-nigh universal? Or is there some glaring point of difference that I'm missing?

Comments

[cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com]

Difference is scale not kind. More ways to fuck up, but not truly different ways.

[ironed_orchid]

Pretty much. I mean there's a need to let people know that being with them does not automatically cancel out the possibility of being with others - because monogamy is the cultural norm.

But, other than that, negotiating some ground rules will be the same in any new relationship, and continuing to communicate will be one very important factor in whether the relationship lasts.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, I would hope that anyone entering into a open/poly relationship knows what that actually means.

But yep, ground rules and ongoing communication really are fundamentals.

[cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com]

Also I love the it's all the freaks responablity, like there is no fucking need for the privilaged person to do some fucking reading, or you know ask. You must hold there hand the whole way and put up with there bullshit because you know, you have the experience.

Me bitter, nah.

[saluqi.livejournal.com]

This, too. Especially if the person you are with is a freak collector for their life resume (artists can be shocking).

[goatsfoot.livejournal.com]

OMG does that really happen? I guess I have a life resume and like to get into weird situations for the fun, but do I have ticky boxes for partners? Hmmmm!!

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. I know one person, who is actually an academic in England, and she was ticking off all the boxes (trans, butch, high femme, andro, working class, upper class, blah blah).

[filkferengi]

And not nearly as well-written as Miles on Beta. ;(

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what I was thinking. There's a patronising tone about all of this, which seems odd when we're all presumably consenting adults. If you're not sure of cultural stuff, it doesn't hurt to ask, or yes, read up about it.

[saluqi.livejournal.com]

She has set that conversation up so that no-one can disagree.

I think this is one of those religious areas when it comes to sub-culture relationships. People are either highly skeeved by the idea of mentoring relationships, or they think there are no issues with them. The truth is a case by case thing, which doesn't make for neat conclusions either way.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Yep, she has a knack for casting things in particular ways.

But, huh, I think you've identified the part that I was missing. I certainly wasn't thinking of this in the context of mentoring relationships.

I somehow don't think of poly as something that would require specific mentoring. Yes, possibly your first relationships/sex in general. Kinky stuff, yes. Actual sexual practices that require some degree of learning. First same-sex relationships, maybe. Not quite sure why I don't think poly falls into those potential categories. Hm.

Although, thinking about it, I suppose that poly can place extra demands on one's self-awareness and communication skills, and if you haven't really picked them up beforehand, a good relationship with sensible person will most definitely help.

Also, inexperienced people could be misinformed by skeevy types as to what being poly requires them to do (such as shag on demand/only the non-threatening gender). But that's obviously common to all situations where there are potential power imbalances.

It's the tone I've been sensing that poly is particularly different in those areas that's the irksome part (as well as the patronising air), but thank you for the illumination as to what some people might be getting at... :-]

[goatsfoot.livejournal.com]

Is it... that the post is about "giving people information", like it's this obligation to help the newbies? That it makes you sound like you known your stuff, and that it's this intellectual thing that you must impart?

Not that I'm especially experienced with poly stuff/drama (yet) but if you have a previously mono partner and you would like to move into poly with them, and they have made interested sounds, isn't it more just something that is nice to do to share your own subjective experiences with them? It doesn't seem like there are "The Rules" that you initiate them into - instead just your own observations, which could be fallible. And besides, giving them your personal observations isn't the same as them learning what personally works for them, what they feel comfy with. And also, can't they look stuff up on the internet or in a book or something? Why is the partner the Main Imparter Of Information?

I guess I don't really get where she's coming from and why people are agreeing so enthusiastically. Is she just finding a way to feel elitist?

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Yep, exactly. I think all you can do is talk about how you've done things in the past, and what generally works for you, and what the other people you're involved with prefer... and then you work out what's best for the two of you, given those variables. Like most other relationships.

As for that mentoring dynamic (let's assume charitably that's what's intended), I think it makes more sense when someone is new to relationships in general, and hasn't really evolved adult discussion skills and negotiation techniques. I had a relationship like that in my early 20s, which while I still wouldn't call it a "mentoring" one (I didn't get involved with her so she could teach me things, and she didn't take me on so she could enhance my social skills), still taught me a lot of that important stuff. Although, hah, I have a fuck of a long way to go, still. But my first officially poly relationship wasn't until I moved here to Australia 4 years ago, and really, my g/f of the time didn't need to do a damn thing to "educate" me, despite her nearly 20 years of poly experience.

So yeah, if you're pretty up to speed on relationships in general, then I don't see why a person who is more experienced in poly would need to Impart that much to you, except for those small matters of etiquette (like don't feel up one partner in front of the other unless you have explicit permission - and not much sense of TMI!)

I'm on a slight mission in this instance to not assume the worst of the OP, although I fundamentally agree with you. I think my prejudice is getting to such a point where I'm not quite sure whether my perception of the - yes - somewhat elitist nature of the question is valid, or whether it's just the fact that I find virtually everything she says suspect, no matter what. Meh.

[goatsfoot.livejournal.com]

PS - Love the post title.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

It wasn't my coining, but I'm happy to borrow it. It's often the feeling I get when seeing people enact normal gender roles, but it certainly works here too. :-)

[alphaloria.livejournal.com]

well, shit. jess and i haven't had anyone hold OUR hands when we decided to go from monogamous to open. we had to do it all on our own.

ok, having friends in similar arrangements did help somewhat, but seriously, communication doesn't require a degree in astrophysics. and yeah we had to communicate a lot more when we moved into an open arrangement, but it's not like we were free of that as a monogamous couple.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's my thought. Nothing's new about the techniques, if you're used to relationships in general. You just need more of them. :-)

[ilikerivers.livejournal.com]

I took poly off my friends list very soon after I joined just because of the drama and the general trend of people thinking that poly is more evolved than monogamy. You aren't barking up the wrong tree at all!

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Good-o, I really did want to see I wasn't imagining things too much, although it was handy to have the potential mentoring option pointed out to me as well.

As for the "we're more evolved" types, they seem to be getting fewer, possibly due to the snarking they get over on d_p_s. Or perhaps I don't notice as much because they make good fodder. Morally pure, I am not. :-)