Mental discombulations

[trixtah]

I don't know what's going on this week, but in the last few days I've encountered some points of view I fairly vehemently disagree with, from people I ordinarily respect to the utmost. With some of these opinions, at least I know why the individual concerned has that belief, and that does help. Others, I have no idea where it comes from.

It's tricky. It's interesting what a double-standard I find myself having, since I certainly won't argue things as much as I would ordinarily... but that's the nature of the double-standard beast when you know someone personally.

It's unsettling. Normally I can think of some middle ground, but in some of these instances, I can't. It's having to rejig my opinions of people in relation to touchy areas - while not having that middle ground to fall back on - that is the disconcerting part.

Then there are implications of what that means about me. I'm obviously not as tolerant as I like to think I am. When it's someone who I don't care about, they're easily dismissed with "So, they're a fuckwit/wierd/ignorant". When it concerns someone where none of those things are patently the case, and I feel so bothered by it, it makes me wonder about the broader question of just how much I expect people to march in lockstep with my own opinions for me to want to be around them. And the answer to that question, for me, doesn't seem to be a particularly edifying one. Hm.

Comments

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

Would it be helpful to you to be able to think the other person is "wrong about X" instead of "a fuckwit/a weirdo/an ignoramus"? Because very intelligent, decent people are frequently wrong about things, and you never know when you'll find out that you are one of them (oops). Many people, and I include myself in this, have strong opinions that are based firmly in personal experience, personal history, religious belief and family coping strategies. These opinions are very resistant to change, and arguing with the person without taking those things into account is only going to make the opinions more deeply entrenched than ever.

There is a fairly long list of topics I try to avoid arguing about because if the other person is as entrenched as I am, it'll just be time wasted in a pissing match, and if the other person is going to insist on arguing only from objective facts and logic, they're not going to want to hear about my personal history or my religious beliefs. (In fact, I honestly don't expect my personal history or religious interpretations to convince anyone who doesn't share my personal history or religious belief--but that doesn't mean I can easily set them aside, you know?)

[saluqi.livejournal.com]

Hrm. I think it's often possible to explore the position in greater depth without arguing or otherwise creating more angst than understanding. Of course, sometimes that takes patience that might not result in much of a payoff in terms of greater understanding (religious questions spring immediately to mind). And sometimes it takes an act of strength and/or courage when the relationship is already under pressure; the old rock the boat issue.

I find that testing "person I know" to "person I don't know" approaches and attitudes is a really useful process personally. In my view, people are often hampered by excusing too much from those they know, and rejecting too much from those they don't. Not always, but often.

I also like what ataniell93 has to say re "wrong about blah" as opposed to "a fuckwit"

As to whether I need people to march in lockstep, I don't, but there are some matters where a particular point of view will necessarily limit how close I get to a person.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

I've been suffering under this lately as well, and haven't come up with a good way to work with it (although there are some useful-sounding suggestions in the comments here). I mostly just sort of "overlook" those aspects of the people in question and interact with them only on other topics. In some cases, though, it's been really changing my impressions, and I wonder if it's doing so fairly.

[filkferengi]

I appreciate your honesty; goodness knows, it's seldom easy. You've definitely given me something to think about.